Beyond the Building: How to Cultivate a Church that Moves and Grows with Pastor Wheat and TS Wright
T.S. Wright welcomes listeners to a thought-provoking dialogue on the essence of a healthy church, recorded live at The Assembly in Siloam Springs, Arkansas. Joined by Pastor Gary Wheat, who has spent over 24 years leading this very congregation, they embark on an exploration of what truly constitutes a vibrant and thriving church community. The discussion delves into the importance of mentorship, accountability, and strategic planning in fostering spiritual growth and outreach. With a blend of personal anecdotes and biblical insights, they emphasize that a healthy church isn't just about numbers but about genuine discipleship and community engagement. So, if you're curious about igniting revival in your church, stick around as they unpack these transformative concepts and share their experiences that might just inspire your own journey.
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To check out Pastor Wheat's Healthy Church go to:
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The Assembly Siloam Springs - Home
Takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of community and accountability within church structures, highlighting that healthy churches prioritize these aspects.
- Gary Wheat reflects on his long pastoral journey, sharing insights into how personal experiences of pain can fuel a passion for church health and revitalization.
- A healthy church must embrace a process of evaluation and assessment, incorporating strategies that align with its mission and vision for growth.
- Listeners are encouraged to seek mentorship and support, as even church leaders benefit significantly from guidance and collaboration in their ministries.
Transcript
Welcome to the show that combines biblical truth with the purpose of sparking revival.
Speaker A:Committed to spreading the gospel.
Speaker A:This is your Kingdom Crossroads podcast.
Speaker A:And now your host, T.S.
Speaker A:wright.
Speaker A:Welcome everyone, to the Kingdom Crossroads.
Speaker A:I am your host, T.S.
Speaker A:wright, and I'm so glad you could join us today as we are live on location here at the assembly in Siloam Springs, Arkansas.
Speaker A:Before we dive into today's episode, if you haven't already, please take a moment to, to follow or subscribe and like, because when you do that, this ensures that you won't miss out on any of our future episodes and your likes help us boost our visibility.
Speaker A:Thank you for being a part of the Kingdom Crossroads community.
Speaker A:So would you like to know what a healthy church actually looks like?
Speaker A:Well, today's guest is a dear friend of mine and whom I have known for well over a decade.
Speaker A:Joining us today is Pastor Gary Wheat.
Speaker A:He has led two churches as a lead pastor.
Speaker A:He is currently the lead pastor at the assembly in Silent Springs, Arkansas, where he has been in this role for the past 24 years.
Speaker A:I am so, I'm just absolutely thrilled to have you here, Gary.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:And I want to say welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:It's great to be here.
Speaker B:It's an honor.
Speaker A:All right, well, you know what, let's just kick this off and dive right in as you and I always do.
Speaker A:You know, I want you guys to know that this is actually a treat for you because Gary and I have had lots of conversations over the years as we've been friends and we've talked about a lot of different topics.
Speaker A:And so we tend to, there's usually they have this room across the hall from where we're located and we call it the Jedi Throne room.
Speaker A:So for all you Star wars fans out there, we make a little crack, a little joke about it, but it's been great.
Speaker A:It has.
Speaker A:And we've had some good times and some great conversations.
Speaker A:But I want to just dive into this and this healthy church idea with Gary has started a ministry and I'm going to let him talk about that.
Speaker A:So, Gary, I'm just going to let you take it away and kind of tell us how that, tell us about the ministry and then how it developed, where you came up with this and, you know, how God maybe led you through to get to that point to be able to do what you're doing on top of the fact that, you know, you're not busy at all, obviously being a lead pastor and a, a fairly good sized church here in Siloam Springs.
Speaker A:Just kind of lead us through that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, this is my second church that I've pastored, and both churches, this one was going through some.
Speaker B:A little bit of difficulty when we arrived 24 years ago.
Speaker B:The first church that I pastored was a small church.
Speaker B:Their pastor before me actually had passed away, and so they were going through a grieving process, trying to get back on their feet.
Speaker B:Fast forward to two years ago.
Speaker B:I was invited to go to Madrid, Spain, to be part of a panel with Dr. Alpatin Garrison.
Speaker B:He has global church health and also Acts 2 Journey.
Speaker B:And I'd been part of the Acts 2 Journey, which is a ministry that helps churches go through a process to evaluate and assess where they're at, but also through prayer, through spiritual assessment, but also strategy, develop a plan, a strategic plan to fulfill the vision and mission that God's given to them as a church.
Speaker B:So I've been part of that for many years.
Speaker B:And he had invited me to be part of this panel on the Assemblies of God World Fellowship.
Speaker B:It was in Madrid, Spain.
Speaker B:It was basically an international convention for the Assemblies of God.
Speaker B:And we stopped in France first because he was presenting and speaking to their conference about the Acts 2 Journey Healthy Church.
Speaker B:He set it up to where I could preach in a church there just outside of Paris.
Speaker B:And as I was standing there on a Sunday morning just in a community outside of Paris, France, and the pastor is standing beside me, we're in the worship service, and I was actually going to share a message on Healthy Church and the Acts 2 journey.
Speaker B:And it just hit me.
Speaker B:I thought, how in the world did a kid from a very small country town, farming town, end up in France?
Speaker B:And on my way to Madrid, Spain, to speak on this panel worldwide?
Speaker B:And it was really humbling.
Speaker B:It really was.
Speaker B:And I asked the Lord, just in a split second, I said, did I get here?
Speaker B:And I still am just in awe.
Speaker B:How God uses people.
Speaker B:And there's a book by Sam Chan, it's called Leadership Pain.
Speaker B:And I'll paraphrase, but I remember reading that.
Speaker B:And out of that book, I remember a section.
Speaker B:And basically what I took away from that is looking back, your greatest pain will also result in your greatest passion.
Speaker B:What maybe you've had pain in the past.
Speaker B:Once you heal over that, you really have a passion too, to develop and help people through that.
Speaker B:So it seemed like forever, but they were finishing the last song.
Speaker B:I'm asking God, how did I end here?
Speaker B:And it was like, for me, it was a little bit, but it was just a split second.
Speaker B:The Lord just kind of reminded me, asked me a question.
Speaker B:The three churches that have really meant a lot to you go through their process and their journey.
Speaker B:Well, the first one that came to mind was the church that I grew up in, you know, and we had great preaching.
Speaker B:We had, you know, just really good services.
Speaker B:People were getting saved and everything.
Speaker B:And I thought, okay.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, that's great.
Speaker B:And then the second one was the first church that we pastored in Oklahoma.
Speaker B:Great people.
Speaker B:I was hoping that they had great preaching because I was one that was preaching, of course.
Speaker B:And, you know, and we had left there to come to Silent Springs and everything was good.
Speaker B:And, you know, and it's.
Speaker B:I didn't understand the third element of church by.
Speaker B:According to the book of Acts.
Speaker B:But anyway, then we came to Silent Springs, and that was the third church that I really felt that had made an impact.
Speaker B:We've been here 24 years, and so we've loved the people, they've loved us.
Speaker B:We've grown up here.
Speaker B:And when we came, the church had gone through a really difficult time.
Speaker B:And so I thought, oh, my goodness, what happened?
Speaker B:They'd had great.
Speaker B:I knew the pastors before.
Speaker B:I think every church kind of go through a difficult time because we're human and it's going to take place.
Speaker B:So I started looking, and all three of those churches had two elements, but they were missing the last element that we see in the Book of Acts.
Speaker B:They had the encounter, which in Acts 2, they had an encounter with the Holy Spirit in the upper room.
Speaker B:And so had great services.
Speaker B:And Peter stands up and he shares the message.
Speaker B:He preaches on what's taking place.
Speaker B:And all those churches had that.
Speaker B:The last element is the one that wasn't so evident, and that is the process, the strategy, getting people involved in the local church or in that.
Speaker B:And the first church, my home church, where my mom and dad got saved at, had encounter with the Holy Spirit, had great service, had great preaching, didn't have the.
Speaker B:The processes.
Speaker B:And it's not even there anymore.
Speaker B:Well, it is, but it closed at a point in time.
Speaker B:Second church, you know, I know the pastor there, he's doing a great job.
Speaker B:But after I left, I didn't have those things in place.
Speaker B:So that's on me.
Speaker B:And when we came to our current church, the assembly knew a couple of former pastors, and so those three things took place, and it kind of.
Speaker B:It let me know, wow, this is why I have such a heart and a passion.
Speaker B:And also, I wasn't.
Speaker B:I didn't go off to Bible school.
Speaker B:At first, I just had people that.
Speaker B:That just helped mentor me and coach me.
Speaker B:So that's where that started.
Speaker A:Extremely important.
Speaker C:Oh, big, big.
Speaker B:It's a big part.
Speaker B:And so that is.
Speaker B:That was out of the pain of seeing those churches struggle.
Speaker B:In a sense, it brought about this passion of how can we help churches become healthy?
Speaker B:How can we help?
Speaker B:They'll make disciples fulfill the mission and vision that God's given to them.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker A:And, you know, he brought up that part about mentors.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it's not just pastors that need mentors.
Speaker A:Everybody does.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and.
Speaker A:And just for you listeners, I've had a few of those in my life that have helped me.
Speaker A:And matter of fact, Pastor Weed here, just so you guys know, and.
Speaker A:And I'm not going to get into the details, but I had a really rough spot in my life.
Speaker A:Pastor Wheat was the one that mentored me through.
Speaker A:Through that.
Speaker A:And so I actually would not be sitting on this microphone with you guys today and sharing this message and the Lord using me had the Lord not interjected Pastor Weed into my life at that certain moment.
Speaker A:So I think that's.
Speaker A:That's such an important aspect.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:I don't think.
Speaker A:I don't think we.
Speaker A:We put enough faith in the mentorship process and put enough emphasis on it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, because we need it.
Speaker A:We need it so bad.
Speaker A:And people.
Speaker A:People don't want to be held accountable.
Speaker B:Yeah, true.
Speaker A:You know, but it's, you know, we.
Speaker A:We need to be held accountable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, our walk.
Speaker A:And you.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're looking at the book of Acts.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Accountability was at the heart of what they did, was the community watched out for each other.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:They were, you know, one of them got offline.
Speaker A:They pulled him back in.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they didn't let him stay there very long.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think sometimes when we open up and I was just talking to someone today, and they were asking, why do you think basically, you know, people are reluctant, or specifically pastors are reluctant to go through, whether it's Acts 2, there's a lot of healthy church processes that churches can go through.
Speaker B:And they were specifically asking me about the Acts 2 journey.
Speaker B:And I said, I think really the first reason why they may be reluctant is, number one, they don't know that they're not healthy.
Speaker B:You know, you go to a doctor to get checks to make sure you're healthy.
Speaker B:And I said, but I think the biggest thing is when you do an assessment, there's no Perfect church, every church, even ours, we have strengths, but also we have things we need to work on.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes leaders, but also pastors feel like if we do that assessment and we go through that process, it may reflect some weaknesses in our own leadership.
Speaker B:And that's hard.
Speaker B:I mean, but we're not perfect either.
Speaker B:And so like you said, it's the accountability part that go, well, you know, if I don't uncover that, then everything will be okay.
Speaker B:Everything else is good, but, you know, so everything will be fine if we just keep this going.
Speaker B:We'll deal with that later.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:It needs to be dealt with.
Speaker A:And you know, just for you listeners, too, just.
Speaker A:Just this ministry here with this podcast and.
Speaker A:And all the different parts we.
Speaker A:We're going to have.
Speaker A:We have the TV show now for the God center concept that's tied to all of this.
Speaker A:And, you know, I' that help me.
Speaker A:And there's areas that they're strong in that, quite frankly, I'm just not.
Speaker A:And if I didn't have them, I don't know how we would produce all this.
Speaker A:I really don't.
Speaker A:So they're a part of this ministry and just as big of a part of the ministry as I am, even though I'm the president of the ministry and the host here.
Speaker A:So that's not.
Speaker A:There's not just one person.
Speaker A:No, as a matter of fact, it is.
Speaker A:And it was you that one day you prayed and laid hands on me that you had told me.
Speaker A:He said, scott, you cannot do this by yourself.
Speaker A:You're going to need people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I remember you saying that.
Speaker A:And that has stuck with me.
Speaker A:And so I started.
Speaker A:I literally after that, when I put my prayer list together, I started praying for people to come in into this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A: And by the way, that was in: Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:And those people have just been coming on board here in the last few years.
Speaker B:So that's great.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker A:That shows you the power of that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Well, here's the thing.
Speaker A:You've been talking about the healthy church and all these great things and giving us the characteristics and stuff.
Speaker A:When you walk in and do an assessment, obviously talk to us about those beginning processes that you start with a church.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:With healthy church life.
Speaker B:I have a heart for pastors, I think, because when I was called into ministry, I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker B:I had three mentors.
Speaker B:Three.
Speaker B:I didn't know they were mentors at the time.
Speaker B:And I think that's the beauty of it.
Speaker B:You don't know I worked pastors.
Speaker B:The first one was very evangelistic.
Speaker B:So I learned evangelism and how the church should be doing outreach.
Speaker B:Next pastor in Oklahoma City.
Speaker B:He was very administrative.
Speaker B:He had that spiritual gift of administration.
Speaker B:Just amazing.
Speaker B:And I learned so much from him about administration.
Speaker B:And then the third pastor, I thought I was ready to be a lead pastor after that one, but no more.
Speaker C:Stop.
Speaker B:And the last pastor that I served as youth pastor with, he had been at that church for, I think at that time it was probably 15 or 16 years.
Speaker B:So that was the longest longevity pastor that I served under.
Speaker B:And I saw that and I saw how important that was.
Speaker B:And so each one of those guys just poured into me.
Speaker B:And so I have a heart for pastors.
Speaker B:So the first step that I do is I meet with a pastor, I really try to start building a relationship with him and their spouse and leadership so that you start building that trust.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not.
Speaker B:It's, oh, this wrong, this wrong, this wrong.
Speaker B:It's really, you've got to find the.
Speaker B:And just really develop that trust that, hey, listen, we're going to, we're going to cheerlead and celebrate all the great things because you're doing more great things than you think.
Speaker B:And a lot of pastors just need someone to celebrate them.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker B:And so, but you know, we go through an assessment.
Speaker B:There is a.
Speaker B:There's actually an online assessment that I have them and their leaders do and in fact their whole church, it doesn't take long.
Speaker B:They can retrieve it online digitally or we, we make waves, those that aren't comfortable doing it digitally and we send that in and then it helps us see their strengths, but also areas that they may need to work on.
Speaker B:And we just sit down with them and we take them through this journey.
Speaker B:I do round tables with them and their leaders, their deacons, their board, their elders, just kind of explaining this process that we're going on, that we have been commanded and we are responsible for making disciples and healthy.
Speaker B:I heard this and I believe this healthy things grow.
Speaker B:But the other day I was thinking about this and you know what?
Speaker B:Non healthy things grow too.
Speaker B:They just don't go the right way.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker B:So I'm going to recoin that phrase of healthy things grow in the correct way, grow in the incorrect way.
Speaker B:So just because your church grows in numbers doesn't mean it's healthy.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Hey, that just takes me to the parable, Matthew 13 about the tarries and the wheat.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and now some people think of the weeds in the wheat.
Speaker A:But if you really break that down, understand that tars looks like wheat.
Speaker A:It does until it fully matures.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:And so we dial it back and understand the ancient Hebrew culture.
Speaker A:We would.
Speaker A:You really get the parable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And I think what you're saying right there is so true about everything grows.
Speaker A:Which way is it growing?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that matters.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And one thing I've learned in being in education and coaching, as long as I have, and as long as I did, I'm not coaching anymore.
Speaker A:And then doing this, there are.
Speaker A:Everybody has their own set of priorities.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:And I'm going to pose this in a question a minute.
Speaker A:And it always seems like regardless of who that person is and, and if they have any type of influence around you within your organization, I think it's always important to address those priorities and then figuring out if they're in alignment and then how do you marry that?
Speaker A:So when you're coming into a church and you're not just doing the assessment with the pastor, you're doing it with the whole church, do you ever encounter where there's other people with maybe some different priorities versus the pastor, and then how do you start working with that?
Speaker A:Probably, I'm guessing.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And how do you do.
Speaker A:How do you address that?
Speaker A:I guess is that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's getting everybody on the same page being.
Speaker B:I believe you have to go back and teach.
Speaker B:And this even comes from, from.
Speaker B:Because you can't turn a ship, a large ship on a dime.
Speaker B:I mean, it, it takes time.
Speaker B:And that's why the Acts 2 journey, the ministry that I'm a part of there, um, we we emphasize journey.
Speaker B:This is a process.
Speaker B:And, you know, Fridays we meet with pastors and their spouse and we cover different things about leadership.
Speaker B:But in that I emphasize, guys, this, this is, this is a journey.
Speaker B:This is a process.
Speaker B:It's not, it's not a silver bullet.
Speaker B:You know, becoming healthy is not overnight.
Speaker B:But just be patient, be in prayer, pray that God will change hearts.
Speaker B:Because we all have those people that have their preferences.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Tom Rainer wrote a good, great book.
Speaker B:And we actually.
Speaker B:It's required reading if you want to be a member of our church.
Speaker B:And it's called I'm a Church Member.
Speaker B:And in.
Speaker B:It's a very small book if I highly, highly recommend it because he does a phenomenal job of hitting that.
Speaker B:Listen, you know, being a church member isn't about your preferences.
Speaker A:No, it's not.
Speaker B:And we, we, we kind of, you know, I think that's part of becoming an unhealthy church.
Speaker B:Everybody wants their style of music, their style of decor, their style of teaching, and that's fine.
Speaker B:But we all have our preferences.
Speaker B:And once you.
Speaker B:One thing that you have to do is get everybody on mission, everybody on vision, and once that is clear, then it helps people line up, because then you start asking questions if someone comes in.
Speaker B:And in Acts 2 Journey, we talk about mission, vision, but also core values.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, I can give you examples of, you know, know, for our church in our.
Speaker B:In our community.
Speaker B:We have a phenomenal community church.
Speaker B:Personally, as of right now, I'm not going to ever say never.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:We probably are not going to do a food closet or a grocery giveaway or something like that.
Speaker B:And it's not that I'm against those.
Speaker B:It's that we have several other wonderful ministries in our community and in our city that we support that they do a way better job at.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And so when someone comes up and they say, hey, you know, I would like to.
Speaker B:I'd like for us to start giving away groceries.
Speaker B:And what we do is we just explain to them we love that.
Speaker B:We don't do that specifically here.
Speaker B:What we do is we support financially, but also we encourage you to go and volunteer.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And so we are connected with that, but we aren't the ones that are actually doing it.
Speaker B:And that seems to help the people that have a personal preference.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:To say, you know what, our church does believe in that, and we partner with other ministries.
Speaker B:We even partner with other churches doing that.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But if you get everyone understanding our mission as a church, the vision of our particular church and what that particular church's giftings and culture is a big part of that.
Speaker B:You know, once you get everybody understanding that, then those conversations are a little bit easier.
Speaker B:And then it's not just the pastor saying, well, you know, we believe in that, but we support it, begins to filtrate through the whole congregation.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's a process doing that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:And one of the things that really hit home with me is that you are encouraging church members to get outside your building.
Speaker B:Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker A:And not be behind these protective walls.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:You know, let's.
Speaker A:Let's get out.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We are.
Speaker A:Church is a movement.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:It is not an institution.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:And when we make church an institution, it runs into all kinds of issues.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:And I think one thing you guys that are listening, and if you're.
Speaker A:If you're a pastor listening to this right now, and you're wondering what do I need to do with my church.
Speaker A:I'm going to say the first thing you need to do is realize you are a mission and you are a missionary.
Speaker A:You are not an institution.
Speaker A:And then number two, you need to contact Pastor Wheat and you need to get that assessment done and then see how your church can utilize his ministry here.
Speaker A:So another thing that you and I have talked a lot about, and of course this plays in the heart of what I do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Pastor Wade and I have even talked about at some point, me helping him.
Speaker A:We did this a while back and we haven't really taken another step further because I've been getting this going.
Speaker B:Busy.
Speaker A:I've been busy.
Speaker A:And so is he with just his.
Speaker A:With just getting the healthy churches.
Speaker A:Is how discipleship plays such a part in this?
Speaker A:Because I'm writing, I've been writing these real discipleship books and I've been writing in the way of helping lay people, the church members, not the missionary that's.
Speaker A:Most missionaries have training programs for their people before they send them out to other countries and do all that stuff, even short term stuff.
Speaker A:You do some training and all that.
Speaker A:I'm trying to train the people in the churches and the goal is, and I run discipleship groups.
Speaker A:I don't even call them life groups.
Speaker A:They're discipleship groups because we have those.
Speaker A:And the goal is that every one of the people in those groups will start their own groups and start discipling and evangelizing.
Speaker A:Because we are all called to do this.
Speaker A:Yeah, this.
Speaker A:If, if you are, if you are relying on your pastor to be the one that has to say the prayer with the person and do all that, you're going to reach about 2%.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:If the people in the pews are doing it, those numbers are going to go exponentially, initially explode.
Speaker A:It's the idea of multiplication, which is exactly the model that Jesus left us.
Speaker A:You have no idea, folks, how many times Pastor Wu and I have talked about this.
Speaker A:But tell me a little bit about where you might see at some point, discipleship start to play a role in helping these churches develop into healthy entities.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:You have to have some type of discipleship model.
Speaker B:Whether it's Sunday school, whether it's small group, whether it's men's Bible study, that has to be a part of it.
Speaker B:In fact, there's five parts that the expert church growth experts, whoever they may be, that they've identified.
Speaker B:And actually they're in Acts 2, Acts 2, 42, 47, and it's connect, go Grow, serve and worship.
Speaker B:It's those five things.
Speaker B:We take churches through that and that's part of that assessment that they take.
Speaker B:How are we doing in these areas that basically define, if you will, a healthy church.
Speaker B:So you connect.
Speaker B:That's fellowship.
Speaker B:You know, it's all through, it's all through the Book of Acts.
Speaker B:It's the new church model.
Speaker B:They connect and they, they fellowship together.
Speaker B:Go, okay, they're going to go and evangelize.
Speaker B:What we're talking about ship ties all that together.
Speaker B:But, but it's connect, go, grow and serve.
Speaker B:So through that we help people find their, their gifting, you know, their spiritual gift, their personality assessment.
Speaker B:We take them through that and let them know, listen, God has gifted you and you need to use that gift to serve his kingdom and to serve others.
Speaker B:Worship.
Speaker B:A lot of people feel, and I understand because when we say, hey, are you, you know, when you think of worship, you think of music and it is.
Speaker B:But it's also ties all of that together because it's how I live.
Speaker B:That's what Paul says, offer up your bodies as a living holy sacrifice.
Speaker B:That's your reasonable act of worship.
Speaker B:So, you know, worship is also how I live and offer myself.
Speaker B:So all of those tied in together.
Speaker B:But I want to come back to the discipleship and that piece of a healthy church is grow.
Speaker B:What are we doing to grow people?
Speaker B:One thing that we learned after Covid is that we weren't good as a church.
Speaker B:Developing self feeders.
Speaker B:People would come to church, they would even come to a life group.
Speaker B:That's our small group and that's where they would feed, that's where they would learn, they need to.
Speaker B:But during COVID when churches shut down, they didn't know what to do.
Speaker B:And so we as our church found out and as I talked to other pastors, some of the pastors said, we found out the same thing.
Speaker B:So we began to say, okay, how can we develop self feeders on the word of God?
Speaker B:How can.
Speaker B:And it's making disciples.
Speaker B:So we became even more intentional on, okay, we're not just going to read the Bible.
Speaker B:We're not just going to do a Bible study.
Speaker B:We're going to start asking, how are you applying this to your life?
Speaker B:And it's the accountability part that we talked about earlier.
Speaker B:And it's not a, you know, oh, you've got to do this.
Speaker B:But it's like we're on this spiritual journey together and you're going to help me and I'm going to help you.
Speaker B:But if you look in acts of the 1st century Church discipleship was part of that.
Speaker B:You know, and so they grew.
Speaker B:They, they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching.
Speaker B:You know, they devoted themselves to teaching of God's Word and then implemented it.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker A:And, you know, and you and I have talked about the, the God center concept series that I have now almost completed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:We've got, we, we base it on four standards.
Speaker A:Three of the standards are finished, and now we're writing lessons for the last standard.
Speaker A:And, and devoting yourself to the teaching is.
Speaker A:It's just invaluable.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I lead, you know, I told you this.
Speaker A:I lead three discipleship groups myself to, with our church.
Speaker A:And I actually have one that's outside the church.
Speaker A:And then we're, we're actually looking to develop one more and then do an online one.
Speaker A:And, you know, I can't tell you guys the, how invaluable, how much you will get if you will invest time with real discipleship.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And to truly learn.
Speaker A:Lord, basically the journey that he set us on and the model, I guess, is really the word I'm looking for to follow.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you, you want to make your churches healthy.
Speaker A:There's a, there's a piece of it right there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, and being able to do that and like you said, assessing these churches, helping them get to that growth.
Speaker A:Part one of the other questions I had for you, and I know that we had, I know you probably offered this to more than just assembly of God churches.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, Yeah, I figured you did.
Speaker A:Is there talk maybe about an instance where you've went in and helped a church and you've seen some of that growth that you've been talking about?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In fact, you know, one church that, in fact, I'm became very good friends with a pastor and we took him through the Acts 2 journey.
Speaker B:What I was talking about, very rural church.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:They were probably running, you know, they were running less than 100 on Sunday morning, probably around 40, 40 people, very rural.
Speaker B:And he invited his whole church to go through that journey.
Speaker A:Sweet.
Speaker B:And so he said, you know, that's awesome because we usually say, you know, if we can get about 15 of your people to come through it.
Speaker B:And he said, I'm just going to ask everybody to come.
Speaker B:And he had probably about 15 to go through it because it's a commitment.
Speaker B:And so after they went through the process and we talk about having a launch, a vision Sunday where you launch out.
Speaker B:This is where we're going as a church.
Speaker B:This is what God's called us to be.
Speaker B:And we've been spending time praying and fasting and seeking the Lord and what we need to do to reach the lost and make disciples like Jesus commanded us.
Speaker B:And he shared with me, he's a pastor.
Speaker B:He said after we went through Acts 2 journey, he said we did our vision Sunday.
Speaker B:And he said we grew numerically and they're running close to 70.
Speaker B:So he almost doubled.
Speaker B:And then after that, he said, but it's not just about the numbers.
Speaker B:He said people have caught on to the discipleship, but also the strategies that we need in place as churches.
Speaker B:And that's when Peter got up and he preached after they had the encounter of the holy spirit and 3,000 people got saved.
Speaker B:You know, my big question is, and I ask churches and I ask pastors and I even ask our church this, what would happen if next Sunday we had 100 people get saved?
Speaker B:What will we do with them?
Speaker B:Do we have a discipleship plan to disciple them?
Speaker B:And so now, fast forward, not only have they grown, they just signed a contract to expand their current facility.
Speaker B:A church just down the road about five miles was.
Speaker B:They're about to close the doors on that one.
Speaker B:They contacted him, they just acquired that building to make it a community ministry center.
Speaker B:And it's just amazing.
Speaker B:And it's just not that we taught it, but they went through that process and they implemented it, these biblical principles.
Speaker B:They got the vision that God wanted for them.
Speaker B:They understood the mission.
Speaker B:People came in alignment with what God and they just began to implement, and they still are.
Speaker B:Now there are challenges.
Speaker B:It's not a silver bullet.
Speaker B:It's not a quick fix.
Speaker B:It is a major process in that I've also went down through healthy church life and trained his leaders, trained his elders, trained his board members.
Speaker B:What does it mean to be a deacon?
Speaker B:What does it mean to help come alongside the pastor?
Speaker B:And so it's been a really, really healthy aspect.
Speaker B:That's just one story.
Speaker B:And there's, there's, there's others that just sometimes pastors just need someone to come alongside of them and celebrate them, believe in them.
Speaker B:But also I still have, I still have my mentors that I can come in and say, listen, I want you to do a fresh eyes assessment.
Speaker B:What do you see that we're not seeing?
Speaker B:Building wise, music wise, you know, how are we treating our guests?
Speaker B:You know, and so having all those things have made a huge difference in some.
Speaker B:And I'm thankful.
Speaker B:I'm humbled to be a part of helping someone become better.
Speaker A:You know, I'm going to say this too.
Speaker A:I like the fact that you brought up a rural church because so much emphasis right now has been placed on these massive churches.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of churches out there that are not massive.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:And they need attention, too.
Speaker A:And I don't care if it's out in the middle of someplace.
Speaker A:You can't even know that there's even a town name.
Speaker A:If there's a church there and there's a pastor serving there and there's people going there, they are still our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:I don't care if they're in the far reaches of Africa or if they're right here in the United States.
Speaker A:And we need to be able to help them when they need help.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's really.
Speaker B:That's really my heart, because I have found out that smaller churches, the budget's tight, and so they may not be able to go to a conference.
Speaker B:They may not be able to hire someone to come in on their tight budget.
Speaker B:Now, you know, I come in and we talk about, okay, what does this coaching consulting cost?
Speaker B:Because there is an expense to it.
Speaker B:But I tell them it's an investment.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:So I love working with them and helping them, because I was that person.
Speaker B:I was that.
Speaker B:I was that pastor of 40, you know, and so I'm like, okay, what do I do?
Speaker B:Who do I go and sit down with?
Speaker B:Who can I ask these questions to?
Speaker B:Who can.
Speaker B:Who can I invite to come and even do board training?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:And so if you.
Speaker B:Once again, it goes back to leadership pain.
Speaker B:And so I've been there.
Speaker B:And so that's my.
Speaker B:That's my heart to help these pastors that they want to grow, they want to.
Speaker B:They want to make an impact for the kingdom of God.
Speaker B:They just need someone to come alongside of them.
Speaker B:And I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I don't claim to be the smartest person, but I do believe that I can come alongside somebody with the experience of even mistakes that I've made and say, you don't want to do that.
Speaker A:Well, isn't that where real wisdom comes from?
Speaker A:And we always try to teach our children, and of course, they do it anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Just as we're wrapping up here.
Speaker A:And, man, I wish we could talk on this for five or six hours, which we cannot tell us.
Speaker A:And this has been great.
Speaker A:How can someone or a church or a pastor get connected to you and be able to reach out to you?
Speaker A:Where can they go to do that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I have a landing page, a website, and they can go to HealthyChurchLife.com okay.
Speaker B:And they can go there.
Speaker B:Has my contact information, of course, social media platforms, just Gary Wheat or Gary L. Wheat, Instagram, Facebook phone number, you know, is all on that web page as well.
Speaker B:But yeah, I'd love to.
Speaker B:Even if it's just to just encourage somebody.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And everything and then just kind of see how we can help them out.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I will say too, you know what, you guys can always tune in to the assembly here in Siloam Springs.
Speaker A:You guys are on YouTube, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, you're on YouTube and got all that.
Speaker A:So if you live in the area, check out the church.
Speaker A:I mean, hey, if you're living in the Siloam Springs area, there's.
Speaker A:There's some good churches around here.
Speaker A:And I'm aware of all.
Speaker A:The assembly is definitely one of them.
Speaker A:And so here's what I want to say now as we're wrapping up, we're going to include all this in the show notes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we're going to make sure that you listeners have the access to this and pastors.
Speaker A:And if you are listening to this and you some help, even if you just need the encouragement, reach out to Gary.
Speaker A:Do not back.
Speaker A:Don't, don't hesitate.
Speaker A:Just reach out.
Speaker A:Don't worry about money and all that other stuff.
Speaker A:And it may just be a conversation that you have with him on the phone that leads to something greater in your church and to grow your community and not just in numbers, but to grow the people.
Speaker A:Because we're all in the human development business and we're doing it with the hand of God.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:That's exactly what we're here to do.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Well, in wrapping up, I just want to thank you guys for tuning in for today's episode.
Speaker A:We appreciate you spending this time with us and being a part of the Kingdom Crossroads community.
Speaker A:If you enjoyed what you heard, we kindly ask that you hit that follower subscribe button and give us a like your support always keeps us producing more content and you're sharing your experiences with you with, with all the things that, that we're going to try to bring to you.
Speaker A:And this always ensures that we can continue to grow and bring that enriching content to you from the hand of God.
Speaker A:On behalf of myself and gary, this is T.S.
Speaker A:wright.
Speaker A:And until next time, go forth in total surrender to the one who owns and reigns over all creation and let the great harvest begin.
